Who is the Real Vision? | A Philosopher Reacts

Mar 16, 2021
410 644 Views

Get 50% off your first 6-bottle Bright Cellars box ► www.brightcellars.com/wisecrack2 Thanks to Bright Cellars for sponsoring this episode!
Wandavision: What can boats and robots teach us about ourselves?
Wandavision mixed two of our favorite things: television, and the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And while it contained tons of surprises, the one that stood out to us was a philosophical debate about the Ship of Theseus carried out by two synthezoids. Let’s see if Vision’s philosophy holds up to scrutiny in this episode of A Philosopher Reacts to Wandavision.
Subscribe to Wisecrack! ► wscrk.com/SbscrbWC
Support us on Patreon! ► wscrk.com/32Q7huu
Check out our Merch Store! ► wisecrack.store/

=== Watch More Episodes! ===
A Philosopher Reacts to God's Not Dead ► wscrk.com/3eHDoT8
Spiderman Far From Home: Marvel's New Philosophy ► wscrk.com/34kdoaC
Thor Ragnarok: The Smartest Marvel Movie? ► wscrk.com/3vqDSCW
00:00 - Intro
02:54 - The Ship Of Theseus
08:38 - John Locke
11:12 - Outro
Hosted by Michael Burns
Directed by Michael Luxemburg
Motion Graphics and Editing by Jackson Maher
Additional Production Assistance: Matias Rubio
Produced by Evan Yee
Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound
#wandavision #marvel #wisecrack
© 2021 Wisecrack / Omnia Media, Inc

Comments
  • I think that once white vision was given his memories, he was no longer controllable, at least not like a machine. He might be different than he was without a mind stone but he's probably free now

    Nexus VanguardNexus Vanguard2 hours ago
  • As far as the ship paradox, which ship is the original is irrelevant as they are both their own ship now.

    DirewolfFrostDirewolfFrost2 hours ago
  • This was the best Žižek impression I've seen in a while *sniff*

    Daniel DiggsDaniel Diggs19 hours ago
  • Matpat sent me

    ShadowShadowDay ago
  • Cool background! who designed it??

    Barbara PBarbara PDay ago
  • ultimately wit the new vision possessing the body and now the memories he is vision but with wonder and white vision the stone becomes "one" making only the unification or just them being together should give them a ship of the same making entirely new panels but it will still need sail to put some wind in it

    Sylva ProductionSylva ProductionDay ago
  • I really don't know My brain is tired lol But for me the sentence of the other dude isn't "edgie" he may just actually believes what he's saying On itself, we all are just meat on a big rock, waiting to die in a universe who won't ever remember us

    the spaghetto productionthe spaghetto production2 days ago
  • So... the real answer is that the ship stopped being The Ship of Theseus the moment a single pice of it changed/ got replaced/ got damaged?

    László MikóLászló Mikó2 days ago
  • I highly suggest Drop Dead Diva. The whole premise had me evaluating this question without thinking I was being philosophical.

    Varian MidoriyaVarian Midoriya2 days ago
  • At 10:00 you say, "But this isn't so much a philosophical point". I respectfully disagree with you. I thought the "new" Vision was applying the idea of Cogito, ergo, sum by René Descartes. When "new" Vision rebutted the "old" Vision's argument for the Ship of Theseus paradox, the "new" Vision asks, "but certainly you are the true Vision for you believe yourself to be?".

    JohnJohn2 days ago
  • should have went down like White vision is the physical embodiment of Jarvis not Vision, until Vision gave his memories back

    zorgricazorgrica3 days ago
  • Well, as a buddhist, I would take Chomsky idea and expand it to everything. There's no self to be found anywhere. At least not metaphysicaly, there are only conventional selves for the sake of language and communication. Both identity and substance are ilusions. We are mere part of a complex, interrelated, stream of fleeting casually conected apearances, interacting with itself without beggining or end.

    Gabriel ValerioleteGabriel Valeriolete3 days ago
  • What about the supremacist ideology of zemo on Episode 4 of TWSAF?

    jdmkIIIjdmkIII3 days ago
  • ssur.cc/girlsdatme1lxnc In particolare, la teoria esistente non lascia spazio alle condizioni finanziarie e amministrative esistenti. Innanzitutto, la moderna metodologia di sviluppo definisce in modo univoco ogni partecipante come capace di prendere le proprie decisioni riguardo alle direzioni di sviluppo progressivo.Tenuto conto dell'attuale situazione internazionale, il rafforzamento e lo sviluppo della struttura interna e una tappa qualitativamente nuova nella distribuzione delle riserve e delle risorse interne. E bello, cittadini, vedere come gli imprenditori su Internet coprono caratteristiche estremamente interessanti del quadro nel suo insieme, tuttavia, conclusioni concrete, ovviamente, si mescolano a dati non univoci al punto da essere completamente irriconoscibili, il che aumenta la loro stato di inutilita.❤️ ユーザーエクスペリエンスを向上させるための私たちの探求では、インターネット分析から導き出された結論が倫理と道徳の普遍的な規範に違反して宣言される可能性を見逃しています。突然、大企業の株主は笑い株になりますが、その存在自体が社会に疑いの余地のない利益をもたらします。多くの有名な人格は派閥の違いを追加するだけであり、関係当局によって客観的に考慮されます。私たち一人一人は明らかなことを理解しています。今日の経済アジェンダにより、開発モデルの開発における重要なタスクを完了することができます。

    Sara TexasSara Texas4 days ago
  • Continuity of memory is fascinating. It makes you wonder if people who experience significant brain trauma are the person they were.

    A. M ChristensenA. M Christensen4 days ago
  • Both Visions broke through glass instantly when they were born. It had been built up through a lot of scenes that Vision phases through walls ect...Why would he break through the glass in the library in Wandavision? Because he remembers being thrown through glass by Thor in Ultron. Vison is back.

    HurionHurion5 days ago
  • "Do I have friends! Is my mom-" I friggin cackled HAHAHHAHA

    -nya--nya-5 days ago
  • When you forget something, are you no longer yourself? I forget things all the time. I don't remember most of what happened to me before 2 to 3 years ago.

    Mac McleodMac Mcleod7 days ago
  • identity are the friends we made along the way (according to locke)

    Marina SouzaMarina Souza7 days ago
  • Wait a minute, if Wandas vision understands all of this stuff and other really smart stuff, doesnt that mean that Wanda must know and understand this stuff in the same amount of detail as vision in order for her vision to be able to know this, therefore meaning that Wanda is hella smart?

    Danny HodsonDanny Hodson7 days ago
  • stop sniffing lmao

    Saint ArjSaint Arj7 days ago
  • I thought it would be cool if they defined what they lacked as a fault and replaced what they lacked with the other. Two fakes ripping themselves apart to build the true vision. The two fakes becoming one whole

    Andrew ChildsAndrew Childs7 days ago
  • Was I the only one hoping that those two would fuse into one bieng?

    Grant PflumGrant Pflum8 days ago
  • This came up on my suggestion and I gotta say the algorithm knows exactly my niche. ha!

    BennytonBennyton8 days ago
  • IMHO, White Vision is a new being, built upon the foundation of the original Vision. In effect Wanda's Vision and White Vision are both copies or clones of the original. White Vision has more than cosmetic differences, because his active mind was used as a basic template to create new programming, and even though he has (evidently) broken free from that programming, it remains part of him. He was not fully created via the Mind Stone coupled with the power of Mjolnir. He does however remember being that person. So he has a new identity to forge. Which from a story-telling pov is tres exciting!

    David MacDowell BlueDavid MacDowell Blue8 days ago
  • Personally I think if Chomsky is right or not is a concern of looking at things from an absolute or relative view, much like how it could be said Absurdism in the absolute specifically askes to accept meaninglessness but then in the relative compels us to rebel *against* meaninglessness. On the absolute identity is a lie. Chomsky provides his argument form the context of his field, but even within the Ship of Theseus we can find this I think. When discussing the ship of Theseus we typically focus on which ship is the real one, only really questioning the two end results. But I think if we consider the words of Hericlitus "you cannot step in the same river twice" as applied to the ship of Theseus we have to take a step back and ask, 'When that first plank was removed, was it still the ship of Theseus?". Like the ever flowing and changing river, or the Michel frog, on the absolute scale the item has changed and is no longer the same thing. But on the relative scale all it really takes to be 'The Ship of Theseus' is for people to believe it is and call it that a la use is meaning. So on one side of the scale as soon as a change was made it cannot and can never again be the ship, but then on the other every step along the way and even both ships are 'The Ship of Theseus'. On the one hand frog Michael is not human Michael and can never return because a change has been made, the two are not the same thing and like Batman and Bruce Wayne can be said to not have the same identity. But on the other side as long as we call frog Michael 'Michael' than it is, because that is the identity we imbue it with. But none of that addresses where this identity comes from. Chomsky discusses it very structurally. The way I think of it in a more philosophy context is an illusion of connecting all identities from across moments via the construction of a narrative-self in conjunction with the ego, based mainly in the stories we tell ourselves about the memories we carry with us. BTW, that thought came while watching Jared discuss narrative self. So, hopefully that's a good thing. But what do you think WiseCrack? Can we accept that identity is a lie while holding view of continued identity that tries to make sense of our experience and provide a useful framework for considering what identity is? Or is transmuting the concept of identity to the paradigm ends of absolute and relative to better understand the whole useless hogwash that only makes it more confusing?

    Steven SmithSteven Smith9 days ago
  • Noam takes a premise that assumes the conclusion to support that argument, dude is working in circles.

    Jeff ThelessJeff Theless9 days ago
  • Wait... Michael Burns... Burnie?!

    Tre916Tre9169 days ago
  • I'm curious to know what video is the one quoted at 12:07

    Adolfo DominguesAdolfo Domingues9 days ago
  • I cringe everytime people call him White Vision... its SPECTRAL VISION

    James GJames G10 days ago
  • If memories make identity,then does that mean the dementia removes identity?

    Alfie SwindellAlfie Swindell10 days ago
  • Im the real vision. shut up.

    sanjiluvsanjiluv10 days ago
  • If you are your memories, does that mean Alzheimers kills you long before you draw your last breath?

    Curtis C CoomberCurtis C Coomber11 days ago
  • Glad he got that consent 😂

    Jayla StarrJayla Starr11 days ago
  • Ok, that's all very well, but would the broken columns hang like that 3:05?

    imotoginimotogin11 days ago
  • "I can't breath right now because what if Chomsky's right?" is a known feeling

    Kyle McCormackKyle McCormack11 days ago
  • Wow. I love it. They are both vision

    matthewJ142matthewJ14211 days ago
  • Like creation. Where does life begin?

    matthewJ142matthewJ14211 days ago
  • I mean, the thumbnail kinda already spoils it... not tryna start comment hate though just a :/

    Cassady AlbericoCassady Alberico11 days ago
  • When they started talking about the ship I’m like “wait hold up is this???”

    Aerin X ShamyAerin X Shamy12 days ago
  • I have so many look-alikes out there that I all but stopped asking who I am.

    Matthew HarrisMatthew Harris13 days ago
  • Gonna keep it real, this “reaction” style video format is not it chief.

    Mint TeaMint Tea13 days ago
  • everyone debate whether who is the true vision but no one realize the wanda's vision is "self-lessly" sacrifice himself, his own identity to convert white vision, why is he bring out the "theseus ship" at the beginning, with his power he can calculate steps ahead and will know in the end, the only work he need to do is transfer his memories.

    Thiên Ân ĐàoThiên Ân Đào13 days ago
  • Female: "Fighting!!!" Male: "Ship of Theseus"

    JesJes13 days ago
  • once he gets his memories he is the real vision

    Optimus PrimeOptimus Prime13 days ago
  • Y'all are reading too much into this. Vision is a computer. When you download your old stuff or rather transfer your old data to a new computer its the same but what makes it different is the user (Wanda) getting use to the new computer. If question is how did WandaVision know its memories cos she wasn't there when he did and neither was she there when he was created. However, he somehow downloaded all those memories to White Vision.

    Mark LawMark Law13 days ago
  • Funny thing is Agnus commented about Weaponized Vision as the ex and Wanda's Vision is the new boyfriend

    Crippling MemesCrippling Memes13 days ago
  • I don't understand why this theory is really relevant. Colored Vision is made from the memories of Wanda not from any part of the real Vision. Memories can be wrong and/or manipulated. White Vision has the body of Vision and the memories of Vision (but they are repressed). Where was the slowly replaced ship? It's like people who create famous art by memory, it is not the real art piece.

    Jarednet1Jarednet113 days ago
  • The Vision Wanda made can't be the real Vision because he was created from scratch by Wanda with her memories of him. So, he has no physical parts of the original Vision and never had. He also doesn't have memories of Vision and his personality was formed by Wanda. So he is a copy of what Vision was. Using ships, the Titanic was destroyed and now the Titanic II is being made in China. The Titanic II is a replica of the Titanic and will never be the Titanic. The Titanic II may look like the Titanic and feel like the Titanic but has no original part of the Titanic.

    Jarednet1Jarednet113 days ago
  • In Brasil, a juridical identity is "what it does"

    Artur TourinhoArtur Tourinho14 days ago
  • I figure if White Vision has come to terms with, and remembers all that comes with it, being Vision...It would just make sense he's going somewhere to think for a good long time, or has already analyzed this reality and is off to take what he sees is the next logical step. Self-termination seems unlikely, but not impossible. Edit : The more I think about it, the more deep this seems, honestly, and it only took me moments to consider a different angle..and another...and another...They really outdid themselves with this scene. From meta-scale, to philosophical, to just an outright great play for the MCU to even approach this, to being fitting on /too/ many levels.

    Fearmus RozenrotFearmus Rozenrot14 days ago
  • I feel like Chomsky's ideas could be applied to philosophy as a whole.

    Reanetse MolelekiReanetse Moleleki14 days ago
  • People who do not find meaning and only view material that shifts, is not above themselves as they reject the soul of humanity, they become nothing. It is more to become one with the sense made from meaning made from a world, than to live in existential depression as you wait for the world to end meaninglessly. You can't live without validating your meaning. You can't strive for anything if you live without reality. The ship of thesious is a perfect case of identity and identity is as real as it is not. Compatibilism between freedom and determinism will lead to realize more about who we are and what is not us. There is nothing behind a skepticism only baseless assumption from one who's unable to dream of what could be. And there is no us without the ideas behind the dreams which lead to philosophical analysis, without us there is nothing, you cannot fire at the soul because it is the only energy you have to live. It may not matter whether our lives have to mean something or not relative to the world. The only thing which matters is what is relitive to what you are and how you will play.

    Eric MauchEric Mauch14 days ago
  • 1:05 I UNDERSTOOD THAT REFERENCE

    RinRin15 days ago
  • But what if mind and body are the same thing? So if your mind is born from the material you are and it's inner workings. Most philosophers seem do just accept the notion of a soul (which in their time was the wise thing to do if you weren't out to mess with the church). One could say that identity is not a state but a flow of change. Like a chain that is tied together and every new segment is not the one before, but is based on it. Correct me if you think I'm wrong. That topic is probably quite subjectiv.

    ZweieckZweieck15 days ago
  • My issue with Chomsky’s take is, at least in my view, a simple one Why would a being require needing to think it’s conscious if it isn’t? I don’t usually find Noam to be the most “edgy logic bro” person But here I feel he is

    Gordo GabblesGordo Gabbles15 days ago
  • I can feel the pain in the student loans comment. I can feel it :|

    Luke WellsLuke Wells15 days ago
  • Could this be applied to say, The Statue of Liberty

    A. UNDERWOODA. UNDERWOOD15 days ago
  • He's going to find Wanda

    Patrick RadcliffePatrick Radcliffe15 days ago
  • The paradox isn't really a paradox. As soon as you replace the first plank of wood from the original ship, it's no longer the original ship; it's a modified version of the ship. If you replace 50% of all the wood, and then created 2 ships each with half of the wood, then you'd have 2 modified ships... If you replace EVERY plank of wood from the original ship with new wood, you'd have a completely different ship. And if you reconstructed a full ship out of the original pieces of wood, then you'd have the original ship again. It's only a paradox if you assume replacing the wood would keep it as the same ship... It's a problem with the language and how you call it, not with the physical property of the ship itself. Think of this: you rent a car, the rental company says you must return the car in the original condition, otherwise you'd be charged. If you replaced one of the side mirrors, in the scenario with the ship, philosophers would've considered that rental car to be the same car even though in reality, we know for a fact it ISN'T the same car; it's a modified version of the car, thus not created some stupid paradox that delusional philosophers dreamt up..

    T TT T16 days ago
  • Bottom line for me...there was no "true Vision" but white Vision is now the only Vision in existence so will be driven to do Vision-things which means that Paul Bettany is staying in the MCU for a while. Red Vision ultimately knew that he was doomed so wanted to make sure that there was at least "a" Vision in the universe after he was gone.

    MGEX8206MGEX820616 days ago
  • I know it's philosophy and everything, but isn't Chomsky's argument (that the solution, if there is one, is seemingly unknowable) stymied by the insufficiency of available data, though? In any case, I'm persuaded by the idea that the solution is fundamentally relative.

    HoganplyHoganply16 days ago
  • My view is that Wanda Maximoff created vision from who see seen vision was. Scarlet Witch created a data vision of all that was good in vision. White Vision dealing with the Paradox. So he left to process the data. More like medication or a place to restart in a safe location. I believe we will see White Vision in a meditation state next time and slowly transforming to a new vision with a transition over time.

    PrimeMac StudioPrimeMac Studio16 days ago
  • The ship of Theseus question is easy. It stopped being Theseus's ship when Theseus died

    adham maheradham maher16 days ago
    • Except that a item formerly made and/or owned by somebody does not stop being the item formerly made and/or owned by somebody once they die.

      !?!?15 days ago
  • I love how this scene wasn't necessary, they could have just had hex vision fight white vision until hex vision could unlock the memories of white vision, but they still did it anyway to give us a free philosophy lesson. Now that's the mcu for you.

    MadtrollMadtroll17 days ago
  • as a follow up idea to the ship of theseus, lets say that you, as a person. undergo an experimental operation: Once you've been prepped and are anesthetised, a perfect copy of you is made with all your memories and thoughts. With the successful operation done, each patient is placed in an identical room. Upon regaining consciousness; are these two people the same person and, would each be considered to be the person who went in for the operation in the first place?

    SuperSonicBlurSuperSonicBlur17 days ago
  • vision can’t destroy himself, or else he would have done it in infinity war himself. White vision will most likely travel to wakanda to get shuri to destroy him, while she convinces him to allow her to fix him instead

    DestructobotDestructobot17 days ago
  • This reminds a me of a scene of a movie with much simpler answer: "-You?" -"Yes me...me,me,me..." -"Me too." (-agent Smith)

    LowLevelWarriorLowLevelWarrior17 days ago
  • That discussion reminded me of the philosofical question of Ghost in the Shell, is Major human or is she a machine programed to make others believe she is?

    Tiago VICENTAOTiago VICENTAO17 days ago
  • Boss. Click bate. You're titled the video as a reaction video. Then just explaining the philosophy of the episode you've previously watched. Just title the video "Episode Philosophy Explained". God damn click bate

    huntman834huntman83417 days ago
  • This is just unwatchable

    Cohn JonnollyCohn Jonnolly18 days ago
  • I like to think when Hex Vision restored White Visions memories that he wiped his primary directives giving him complete free will.

    ZaccAttack06ZaccAttack0618 days ago
  • The programming to kill vision was made to the limited vision so once he unlocks the memories he is no longer that vision and would no longer be contained by those parameters

    Ryan HamstraRyan Hamstra18 days ago
  • The essence of all my internal monologue's fears (as a sociologist) is "what if Chomsky's right?"

    Parikshith ShashikumarParikshith Shashikumar18 days ago
  • White Vision is obviously heading to Louisiana ti fix Sam Wilson's boat. The best way to resolve a thought experiment paradox is to take the easy way out and literally solve a similar problem elsewhere IRL.

    L WL W18 days ago
  • Nice step forward from the story Ultron started.

    R. K.R. K.18 days ago
  • I would say you are neither your mind or your body but you are your soul because without the soul you have no meaning or emotion towards your memories and no reason to question your own identity in the first place.

    Chrismatt GardnerChrismatt Gardner18 days ago
  • Hey, These another angle on this which is that they're not talking about vision. They're talking about Wanda and how her identity is wrapped up in television, her aspirations, and dreams, and how she interprets her life

    Aaron GAaron G18 days ago
  • 1:10 And I thought I was the only one

    GrandLegomasterGrandLegomaster18 days ago
  • that moment was pure art i dig it. talk no jutsu mcu style

    Czar Vincent RojocaCzar Vincent Rojoca18 days ago
  • Someone has to appreciate how perfect paul bettany's robot voice is ❤️💕

    YasminYasmin18 days ago
    • not mee

      joshuachapplejoshuachapple18 days ago
  • I think that vision will have no emotion for a movie or two, and then something will reignite that part of his mind again. This would follow comics closely and offer some unique character moments. Maybe he could even meet Wanda but not care for her emotionally any more. Whatever the case, I expect he will act much more like Jarvis.

    Joe EndermanJoe Enderman18 days ago
  • Iron Man: I defeated Obidiah with technology Dr Strange: I defeated Dormamu with an infinite time loop Quill: I defeated Ronin with the power stone Vision: *YOU WANNA HEAR A RIDDLE?*

    Big StankyBig Stanky18 days ago
  • Great work.

    nullnull18 days ago
  • This was my favorite part of Wanda vision.

    roman sroman s19 days ago
  • The video starts at 4:00

    Mateus Rezende RibeiroMateus Rezende Ribeiro19 days ago
    • thanks that took forever

      joshuachapplejoshuachapple18 days ago
  • Chomsky's critique is irrelevant, though, because the Visions aren't debating the nature of reality per se. They're attempting to parse their own extremely peculiar cognitive states using a philosophical model.

    Matthew HooperMatthew Hooper19 days ago
  • "[Man:]I think, I think I am, therefore I am, I think. [Establishment:] Of course you are my bright little star. I've miles and miles of files, pretty files, of your forefather's fruit. And now to suit our great computer, you're magnetic ink. [Man:] I'm more than that. I know I am. At least, I think I must be. {Inner Man:] There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave and keep on thinking free." - Graeme Edge, 1969

    John CraftonJohn Crafton19 days ago
  • You should check out Wonder Egg Priority

    rbz2005rbz200519 days ago
  • Excellent video and funny

    Raymond LlavonaRaymond Llavona19 days ago
  • As for the ship thought experiment. As you replace original pieces it is always original until you replace 50% then the pile of old parts is now the original. In the most practical sense. As for the idea of the ship, it is subjective but will almost always be the built ship even after full replacement. Unless of course you rebuild the old parts back up.

    Sean PotterSean Potter19 days ago
  • My favorite realization about paradoxes is very related to the Chomsky response. If we assume that we are all a part of the same reality, and that the events in this reality are causally related, then there are no paradoxes, ontologically speaking. Reality cannot contradict itself. The source of the paradox is our attempt to understand, or categorize, or define something. It is an epistemic problem. Most often it is a semantic problem. Efforts to generalize knowledge lead to grouping things with similar characteristics, but this is done for our convenience, not because of any fundamental law of nature. I like paradoxes, though. They are a good stress test for deceptively complex concepts that might otherwise be taken for granted.

    MrKltpzyxmMrKltpzyxm19 days ago
  • If you have a sand castle, and you reuse all of that material and make it into a new different style castle, is it still the original castle? No, it’s a new one. Just because something uses the original components of something else, does not therefore mean it remains that something else. Even being reassembled into the same form of that original sand castle, it is still a new castle and the original in this situation was destroyed.

    Brock BillingsBrock Billings19 days ago
  • The ship of Theseus is one of my favorite thought experiments and I am so happy that Marvel included it

    Alexander Van ValkenburghAlexander Van Valkenburgh19 days ago
  • "Let's jump right into" After 2:55 Right.

    RensuneRensune19 days ago
  • I have been waiting for someone to making this video

    Vincent PalmaVincent Palma19 days ago
  • Subscribe for more DMT jokes !

    DAVID NIGHTENDAVID NIGHTEN19 days ago
  • When the Normanby from mass effect was rebuilt into the Normanby SR2 in mass effect 2, is it still the Normanby? When Iron Man upgraded his armour 45 times is it still the same Iron Man armour?

    orgelekSorgelekS19 days ago
  • So a question for this, if there was two me, one that looked completely different and sounded different, but contained all of my psychological mannerisms and memories, and another of me containing only my original physical appearance and everything that was me (i.e. original material), but no mannerisms or memories. Which is the real me, or are they both me?

    LomasneyAaronLomasneyAaron20 days ago
  • Does the ship of thesus paradox apply to time travel? like in Zack Snyders Justice League. When flash goes back in time.

    Miguel RectoMiguel Recto20 days ago
USworlds